Chatter Box Radio
Hello beautiful friends! We are a podcast made up with various guests, such as: therapists, life and health coaches, parents, authors, teens, teachers, trainers, etc - who tell their personal stories of how their "ashes turned to beauty". You’ll unravel -wild- untold tales from normal people, just like you and me. Each episode shares the hardships and then gives hope by sharing the miracles that came from it. We are REAL - open and honest about what we’ve been through and want to spread hope in the miracles we've experienced, and that are all around us.
Our intention is to help and support the mental health community with our money and our time. We provide free resources for those seeking professional help for a loved one struggling with mental health. We offer meditations, stories of encouragement, experience, and resources to help you on your mental health wellness journey. We'd love to hear from you! If you or someone you know would like to share their story, please email: podcast@thechatterboxradio.com or visit us at www.thechatterboxradio.com.
Carrie has a Bachelor of Arts Degree from St. Edwards University and Master Studies emphasis in Latin America and Spanish. Her career in radio began at Clear Channel Radio in 1995 in Austin, Texas.
A professional Voice Over Artist, specializing in Commercial, Animation and Elearning genres. (www.carriefarris.com ) She has voiced for many brands, corporate companies, announcements, schools, radio stations... the list goes on and now to be a voice for the #mentalhealth community!
Master yoga, kickbox and cycle instructor.
Certified Meditation Coach - spiritual and cognitive meditations.
Podcast Host - The Chatter Box Radio Podcast.
Voice Brand - KWVH 94.3
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Disclaimer: Supplements and medical stories have been shared in various episodes. Please contact your physician or medical care provider before taking or adding new medicines or supplements to your normal regime. We are not medical physicians and do not claim any health benefits that are right for you. You are your own advocate. Seek medical help immediately if you or someone you know is suicidal or may have overdosed on alcohol or drugs. When in doubt - pick up the phone and don't hesitate. It's better to be safe. Call 911.
Chatter Box Radio
Journey to Wellness: Exploring Yoga Therapy and Ayurveda with a Certified Practitioner
Meet guest, Deborah Charnes, author of "From the Boxing Ring to the Ashram".
She was riddled with chronic low back pain and digestive disorders since
childhood, Deborah Charnes spent 50 years exploring the world,
uncovering secrets to health and happiness.
For two decades, she managed hundreds of news conferences, editorial
board meetings, press briefings, and one-on-one interviews. She worked
with security, communications, and advance teams for John McCain,
Hillary Clinton, President Barack Obama, First Lady Michelle Obama,
then-Vice President Joe Biden, Dr. Jill Biden, Bernie Sanders, megastar
Jennifer Lopez, and the Vice President of El Salvador.
In 2011, Deborah left the high-pressure demands as an international
corporate marketing communications strategist. Moving forward, she
dedicated that same energy to positive transformation—of herself and
others. She vowed to never stop learning—or sharing.
Already a certified yoga teacher, she added training in Ayurvedic
massage therapy, nutrition, and cooking. She received certification in
multiple holistic modalities and after an additional 800 hours of
specialized training became one of the first bilingual (English/Spanish)
certified yoga therapists in Texas.
Coaching people of all ages, and with many physical or emotional
challenges, she seeks to boost the body, mind, and spirit through simple
techniques that can be practiced anywhere and anytime. To that end, she
has created a dozen signature therapeutic workshops. Among them are Dem
Bones, Gutsy Yoga, Chill Out, Breath of Life, Chant and Be Happy, Tummy
Bust, and Sugar Drop. All are offered in English and Spanish.
Deborah has lived, worked, and studied in the U.S. and Latin America. A
travel blogger since the early WordPress days, she has published 500
mind/body and lifestyle articles. Her deep commitment to helping others
achieve maximum well-being led her to write “From the Boxing Ring to
the Ashram” https://a.co/d/9T9ADWG
When not writing or traveling, she enjoys hosting guests at her
mini-retreat center, The Namaste Getaway in Texas Hill Country. Connect
(and learn) with her on her virtual book club , social media ,
YouTube channel, and deborahcharnes.com
http://deborahcharnes.com/book
https://www.facebook.com/TheWriteCounsel/
http://instagram.com/deborahcharnes/
http://youtube.com/deborahcharnes
www.thechatterboxradio.com
www.carriefarris.com
Thank you for listening to our show! If you are looking for resources on any topic we've discussed, please visit our website: www.thechatterboxradio.com You will find vetted websites and information to help with suicide prevention, domestic abuse, and mental health support.
If you are looking for meditations or yoga, we've got that too! Check out our YouTube videos !! Especially developed to increase brain flow, stimulate the vagus nerve and relieve stress.
Contact us at: podcast@thechatterboxradio.com for guest inquiries. If you are on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube or Twitter, click and follow! You are apart of other people's healing. Join me and let's make this planet a little nicer.
For Sponsorships & Promos, contact:
www.carriefarris.com
People are like, well, what's great about this book? And I think that there are nuggets that you can get from everything and words or podcasts or things that are coming to you for a reason and you really got to sit with it and see is this work for me? So what I love about this is that you put all of it together the physical, the mental, the spiritual, all of it and I want you to tell people a little bit when you were growing up, the struggles that you had digestive issues, chronic lower back pain. You're one of three kids and nobody else in your family had this, so you're trying to figure all this out. So, on top of that, you're also this corporate guru who managed hundreds of news conferences, editorial board meetings, press briefings and one-on-one interviews, worked with security communications and advanced teams for John McCain, Hillary Clinton, President, Barack Obama, First Lady Michelle Obama, then Vice President Joe Biden, and the list goes on Jennifer Lopez and the Vice President of El Salvador.
Speaker 1:The other thing that I was so impressed with because in 2011, you stopped and you went all the way. You were already teaching yoga. I'm going to let you talk, but I got to make one more point Already a certified yoga teacher. She added training in Ayurvedic massage therapy, nutrition and cooking. She received certification in multiple holistic modalities and, after completing 800 hours of specialized training, became one of the first bilingual English-managed certified yoga therapists in Texas. You traveled around the world, you hold workshops. You got it going on. Finally, I was the most impressed.
Speaker 2:I was going to say finally, after I hit 50, I finally got everything to go in sync with what was best for me.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:In reality, when I was younger, I was always doing what I was supposed to do, or what our society tells us you are supposed to do, and then, finally, I just realized I have to do something for me and I have to do what's right for me. And that is actually one of the reasons why one of the workshops that I lead, which I love so much, is called First, love Yourself. Yeah, because it is so common in our society that, especially women, we take care of the kids, we take care of other family members, we take care of our partners, we have to take care of teams at work, we have to take care of household chores and the financials and everything, and we don't take care of ourselves. I used to. Seriously, I used to work such long hours that I didn't even go to the bathroom during the day and I didn't even go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1:I've heard of people doing that. That is hardcore. I can't even imagine what that does to your body, right.
Speaker 2:And, of course, if you already have underlying conditions. I have musculoskeletal issues that can cause back pain, which is what I was diagnosed when I was very young, and I also was diagnosed when I was very young with digestive disorders. And if you're running around crazy, doing everything that society tells you you must do to be successful, you're not going to be successful with your internal being and your health and wellness and your happiness.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because you don't have time. The other thing that I remember I never had time for is I never had time for well visits for the doctor, and get this talking about even emergency treatments. I had to get my gallbladder removed and I scheduled it for the Wednesday evening before Thanksgiving so that I would recuperate over the Thanksgiving weekend and go back to work on Monday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how many of us do that?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right. And we're considered superheroes, but that's not where we're going to go and then eventually something's going to break down. Is that what happened with you when you just were working so hard? Like what made you decide I'm not going to do the rat race anymore?
Speaker 2:So interesting question, and I would say no, but yes. So there was nothing that was all of a sudden. However, one thing that did happen to me that I totally attribute to all of the burdens that I took on I had a frozen shoulder, and it was the right side, and I have since had many students and clients, almost all female with frozen shoulders, and if you read what Louise Hay says about what a frozen shoulder is telling you, it's that you are taking on too many burdens. But I didn't read any of that until.
Speaker 2:Okay, define frozen shoulder, because I swear I have one now that you just said that it's called frozen shoulder is the lay term for it. The medical term is something encapsulitis, and the way that I was described it's as if your shoulder has shrink, wrapping. Okay, couldn't even use a mouse pad, really, and I did a year and a half of physical therapy and again, I didn't read about Louise Hay's book and what it means on an energetic or on a me interview until much later. But I truly believe that the reason why I had it it is considered idiopathic, which means doctors don't know why you get it- yeah.
Speaker 1:Don't you love that when you go to the doctor and they're like I don't know, so, especially when it's idiopathic.
Speaker 2:I have more reason to believe in what Louise Hay says about how the emotions get in the way and the emotions wreak havoc in our body. And of course, that is something that I learned very young when I was diagnosed with my digestive disorders. I knew my doctor told me when I was maybe 12, 13 years old. He told me that it was stress related. And I think back, I worked. The other thing that I did in my professional career is I was a crisis relations specialist, oh boy, and I never felt stress. I was always very zen and there could be shootings going on, there could be bomb threats and I would be fine, yeah. But inside my stomach would act out and, of course, through. That's how I originally came to meditation. I started meditating when I was very young because I found that that was the only thing that would cool down my pains. And again, I wasn't the kind of person that needed meditation. At least, I never would have thought that Again. You don't know how your body responds Right and everybody, everybody's body, responds differently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that wasn't that the truth. So you started noticing that these things just you needed to change.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Not only meditation but the breath work. Oh, they made a huge difference. I would say that I have been and I also, so I do many therapeutic workshops which I love, and one of them is First Love Yourself. Another one is called Gutsy Yoga and it's all about digestive disorders. And again, everybody is different and what one person needs may be totally the opposite of what another person needs. And are you Vedic and yoga therapist point of view? Because I am a certified yoga therapist and from the way that we are trained is, we need to assess each individual very much, based on their Ayurvedic constitution, and only then can we give them recommendations.
Speaker 1:Can you explain that Sure?
Speaker 2:I'm going to explain it with yoga. Okay, good, first of all, I love all kinds of yoga. What I tell people a lot of times is what bothers me is if a doctor tells a patient you need to try yoga, there is no caveat that tells them oh, you should try restorative yoga, or you should try Kundalini, or you should try gentle yoga or Let me just back you up on this real quick, because on the schedule it says that my class is an intermediate vinyasa.
Speaker 1:Most people don't know what that means. Then they come to class and say my doctor said I needed to do more yoga. Well, they're coming into the wrong class if they've never taken that class before. They need to start off with a slower or hatha or something beginner Go ahead Happens all the time. Doctors are recommending that. Then they're going and then you can get hurt in yoga.
Speaker 2:Yes, and talking about again not to put the blame on doctors, but I'm going to give another example is through the YMCA, I was a Livestrong coach for cancer patients and cancer survivors and it was mandatory that every participant had their doctor's green light to participate in the physical activity.
Speaker 2:And every single one I saw the doctor's approvals, every one said cleared for all physical activity.
Speaker 2:There were people in wheelchairs, there were people with many other issues aside from their cancer treatment, aside from, I mean, when you're going through chemo there are a lot of things you cannot be doing. But aside from that, there were many people that had other physical issues that prevented them from all physical activity and I couldn't believe that every one of them the doctors, okay, cleared for all physical activity. But going back to from a yoga perspective, as I said, I love all kinds of yoga and I believe different types are appropriate for different people and different types of yoga can be appropriate at different times in your life or even at different times in the day. There are some forms of yoga that are not good for some people, and I'm not even talking about from a Western medicine perspective, but one of the yoga classes that I teach is Yin Yoga, and I typically tell my students that I believe almost everyone in our Western society should be practicing Yin once to twice a week, and the reason why is because most of us and I'm included.
Speaker 2:I like to be physically active. I like movement, I like to be pushing myself, but that's our lifestyle.
Speaker 1:And we need the opposite.
Speaker 2:We need to do nothing, we need to be still and not move. And because of that, yin Yoga, for some people, can be very difficult. And if it's very difficult for them, traditionally they're the ones that need it the most Right.
Speaker 1:They say wherever you're feeling resistance, there's a reason. You might want to press into that and see why.
Speaker 2:And then hot yoga is all the rage.
Speaker 1:And again.
Speaker 2:I love hot yoga and I've taught hot yoga and I know hot yoga is very good for me, but it is not good for a lot of people. I need to heat up my body, and heating up the body also heats up your digestive fire, which helps with digestion. But anyone, for example, with trying to think of what it's called, they tell you to drink milk when you have that stomach issue ulcers, oh Ulcers, for example traditionally is viewed from an Ayurvedic perspective as having too much digestive fire. Oh OK. And again, there are many other ways to determine if someone has too much fire in their body. What's simplest is who sweats a lot, and I used to jokingly say but it was true that I didn't even really sweat in my hot yoga classes. I know people like that.
Speaker 1:I know people that will work out and they do not sweat Right. I never understood that.
Speaker 2:And again, that is a sign that they need to heat up more. Oh, OK.
Speaker 1:I've heard that if you sweat easily, that your body is healthy. Is that true or is it just about because it seems like a balance?
Speaker 2:From an Ayurvedic perspective, the people that sweat a lot are traditionally Pitha, p-i-t-t-a, and that means fire. Okay, pita is responsible for the digestive fire, and people like me are lacking in the digestive fire and that is what causes my digestive disorders. However, if you have a healthy pita, that's very good, but then some people can have too much pita, and then that's when things like ulcers will flare up or other things, and so traditionally let's just say traditionally someone who is fire should do Yin yoga as opposed to hot yoga in the summer months. So maybe in the winter it's fine for them to do periodic hot yoga, but definitely not in the summer months.
Speaker 1:Okay, because I have a family member who just drenched sweats all the time like all the time, but I didn't know if there were hot scenes like everything's connected. So maybe it's from anxiety or it is. It's my oldest son and so I'm always wondering is that from anxiety or will that lead to a digestive? But just knowing that he has that he can be aware now of what you're saying, just being aware of the signs from your body, right?
Speaker 2:And if you think about it in terms of ulcers because I said that traditionally, ulcers, from an Ayurvedic perspective, are from too much fire and if you're thinking about it, in our society we've been told to drink milk if you have an ulcer. And if you think about it, milk is cooling and soothing and so that balances. Now, from an Ayurvedic perspective, what I would tell people is to drink peppermint tea.
Speaker 1:Do you use the essential oils in your practice?
Speaker 2:I do, and I was going to say in terms of one of the other elements of yoga and I was trying to an Ayurvedic massage. But you can do self massage, which is called abhyanga, and people that have too much fire when they use the oil, they should use coconut oil because coconut oil is cooling. Now I use sesame oil, which is heating, and I went to an Indian store once to buy the oil and I was told oh, you should buy the mustard oil. And I asked my Ayurvedic doctor about mustard oil and he said mustard oil is definitely good if you don't have the fire, if you live in a cold climate, but not for Texas.
Speaker 1:Oh, so it's super hot. Then it won't warm you up a little too much?
Speaker 2:And he said oh, there were probably Northern Indians where it's very cold so they're used to using mustard oil to heat up, but he said not for Texas.
Speaker 1:Wow, there's so much, so much from our earth that we don't know that we can use. It's amazing. It's better than what we could get from the doctor.
Speaker 2:Isn't it? Well, I believe that, yeah, and that is why I consider my Ayurvedic doctor my primary doctor. I still go for my annual visits to the traditional doctors, I still get my lab work done, I get imaging done as needed, but if I have a problem, then I will go to my Ayurvedic doctor and let him know about the results. And my Ayurvedic doctor is not the person who is featured in my book. However, my book incorporates one chapter which is based on Ayurveda and it's based on my teacher in India who teaches Ayurveda to Ayurvedic students both in India, in Japan and in Canada, and he also runs an Ayurvedic clinic and the clinic treats, aside from guests that pay money to be there. Ayurvedic clinic also treats I don't know how many thousands, maybe two or three thousand people every year on a free basis.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow. So in your book back to your book you've got 12 chapters. There's like four different parts and you've taken things from 12 different gurus that you've studied with, you've traveled and you've found those nuggets that really helped you. And so, even though it's taken us so long, we get to a point where we're like we've learned all this, we want to pass on our knowledge so it doesn't take you 50 years of work to try to find it to help. So I hope others can really see that these are tools that maybe one of them or all of them resonate with you and you can get the book and get those ideas.
Speaker 1:But what's really neat as well that we talked about last time was you mentioned at the very beginning about some of the workshops that you have and the yoga. And you've named these yogas like the gutsy yoga I wasn't going to interrupt you earlier, but that is so specific and so needed at the same time how you can bring people together and do that. And then the other one was dim bones, D-E-M right. And then the chant and be happy. And so you have these workshops that are in the whole country that people can go contact you. They can do individual, they can do group right or virtual, oh perfect. I didn't realize that that makes it even more accessible and so probably people can just find you and do you do like an assessment, like an online assessment, before you get started, and then isn't it like a 12 week, or you tell me specifically.
Speaker 2:That's a great question. As a yoga therapist, if I take on a new client One-on-one, I do a 90 to 120 minute intake. There are many things I go over in that intake. Then traditionally it takes me possibly a week to 10 days to develop my recommended protocol for them, which ideally I work with them on a weekly or every other week basis for six to 12 weeks. I give them bits and pieces of the protocol so that they don't feel overwhelmed with doing everything all at once. That is traditionally how I work with my one-on-one yoga therapy clients, my workshops. More recently I have been doing individual workshops. What I mean by individual is just a one-time only. Let's just say for gutsy yoga.
Speaker 2:I originally started the gutsy yoga series of workshops teaching at the YMCA in San Antonio. We offered it as a special program where people had to commit to six weeks. Because it was a small group that committed to six weeks, I did a modification of the intake. Maybe it was a 30 or 45 minute intake on everyone before they started. As an example, if I'm doing gutsy yoga, I would like to know in advance who has IBS, who has ulcers, who has Crohn's, who has celiac, because everything is going to be different. That's why I did the intake before the series began. More recently, I have just been offering and I've done this in Mexico as well just one-time only workshops.
Speaker 2:I will take the gutsy yoga one. Even though I may have 12 hours worth of programming that I can offer, I just do 60, 90, or 120 minutes at a time. It's a condensed, focused version. Of course, it doesn't give you everything, but it gives you a good taste and a good idea. It's not an easy answer, because I do all of that With the one-time only workshops. I do not do the intake. However, I do give them checklists when they first get there so that we can determine what some of their issues are. Then I can very quickly change direction based on who is present.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. If someone does come to you and they say this is what my problem is, then you talk to them. You have a plan specifically for them. What I love about what you said the last time we met was you're not trying to overwhelm anyone. It's not like here's all the things that you have to do, boom, boom, boom, and here's all your homework and I'm going to keep you accountable in this. You are keeping them accountable, but it's more of an ease in and maybe try something different instead of just something radical.
Speaker 2:Exactly that's because if I give them too much or if I give them what they don't like, it's not going to help. I also, when I worked in the marketing communications world, I represented a lot of healthcare clients. I learned, even from the traditional Western medicine standpoint, non-compliance I believe that's the term that they use when somebody doesn't take the meds what they don't do what they are supposed to do. It is very common. It's also very frustrating for the medical practitioners if their patients are not doing what they need to do. As a yoga therapist, I recognize that I can't make somebody do what they don't want to do and that's why I try to find what they're going to want to do and tailor it to them. And in my book, what I tried to do also because I didn't want to overwhelm people is every chapter has five easy tips and all of the tips are free, with the exception of seeing your medical provider or mental health provider, and all of them are meant to be enjoyable and accessible.
Speaker 2:And I'll just read five easy tips from the chapter on Go with your Gut. And this is from my Ayurvedic teacher in India, and I'm not going to read the whole paragraph, I'm just going to read the main. Ok, the highlights, the main nuggets. All right. Number one don't eat at night. And I will say I try not to eat after five o'clock at night, which for some people is very early.
Speaker 1:That's so hard and I'm a night eater girl.
Speaker 2:And in some countries it's common for people to eat dinner at nine or 10 o'clock at night. I prefer to not eat then to eat late at night, and that's because I know that my digestive fire is sleeping already, so it's not good. So that's number one. Number two drink warm water. Well, here's something that I bet you don't know about me.
Speaker 1:When.
Speaker 2:I was in high school, I studied Italian language. I studied it in college and I studied it more recently and I actually spent three months working in Italy last year. And but one of the things that I learned in my high school Italian class is Italians don't use ice. And I spent a lot of time in Latin America from the time I was very young and it was always common even if you order a Coca Cola, like if you get a bottle of Coca Cola, it's common. I don't know about now, but it used to be that they would say well, in Spanish it's al tiempo, which means to the climate, meaning whatever the room temperature is, or do you want it chilled? Chilled whereas Americans everything is as cold as can be. And I could never understand. If you go in somewhere in the United States, especially a fast food restaurant, they give you a huge thing of ice and almost no liquid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's a money making thing Side day.
Speaker 2:But anyway, you should not. I'm not going to tell you why, but there's a lot of reasons why you should not drink cold liquids. Drink warm liquids. Ok, number three, and this seems like a no brainer Eat homemade wholesome dishes as much as possible. And I say it seems like a no brainer, but again, in our society it's so much easier to drive through a drive through to pick up something frozen, put it in the microwave or to go to our favorite restaurant.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's just talking about lifestyle.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And again when, when I lived in Latin America, it used to be common that in Latin America people had the siesta. The siesta was not necessarily a time to take a nap. It was a long break from work, where you went home, had a home cooked meal with your family and relaxed and then went back to work.
Speaker 1:You imagine it's so foreign to us Americans?
Speaker 2:It is Number four, and this is going to go against what a lot of people do or read, because In the holistic field there's a lot of contrary beliefs about this. Restrict or skip fermented foods such as vinegar, tamari and alcohol. In number five Wait, say that again. Restrict or skip fermented foods such as pickles, vinegar, tamari and alcohol.
Speaker 1:Okay, I just got to stay there for one second Because all this reading and I've heard that you want fermented foods because of the enzymes that are in them and the countries that eat like the kimchi and all that that they're healthier people, but you said to restrict or skip it.
Speaker 2:Right and again, that's why I'm saying that there's contrary beliefs. But from an Ayurvedic perspective, those are all considered tamasic and they are considered. I don't want to call them poisonous, but they're lethargy producing and they're toxin producing and they are not good for you. And they also are. It affects your digestion in a negative way, and so that's why I-.
Speaker 1:I did not know that girl Because we didn't say it here, but you and I've talked before and how ironically I've had the same thing growing up with the stomach issues. We were in the hospital. I was in the hospital. They didn't know it was wrong with me either, all the things, and so it's been my journey too to figure out. And I opened up to you about the Crohn's and I was, and I don't eat meat, and it was the last thing in the world I wanted to give up, but it was the last thing. I tried to give up, and I can't eat meat. I love meat.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to tell you and I was going to say, meat is also tamasic. Okay, I mentioned that fermented foods like vinegar tamasic, and meat is tamasic.
Speaker 1:Because I've learned all that about the meat, but I thought that I knew that the fermented was actually good for my stomach. So now I'm confused. I'm going to have to go. You and I are going to have to sit down with a whiteboard later.
Speaker 2:Figure this out Again. There's so many different ways to look at things and that's why I'm saying from an are you Vedic perspective right. Are you Vedic perspective? You are supposed to follow a satvic diet which is pure, stable, balanced and I know a lot of people that follow satvic diets and when you eat a salad, you don't use oil and vinegar. You can use oil with lemon juice, but not the vinegar. And then, of course, drinking any alcoholic beverage is also considered tamasic.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I don't drink alcohol anymore. I mean every once in a while, I will you know, for a special occasion. But yeah, I've learned that doesn't help.
Speaker 2:The fifth tip, and this may be the hardest minimize external stressors. Okay, and again, that just goes back to also what I learned when I was very young was that my digestive issues were caused by stress.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we can help.
Speaker 2:Right Diet, of course, is very important, but stress affects it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. And that's where yoga comes in. Meditation comes in because we can't stop all the crazy. You know you got to keep going, but you have to take the time. I tell all my classes, right when we get started, I say you got here. That was the hardest part. Now that you're here, and it doesn't matter. We're not in competition with each other. We're here to support each other, encourage each other to be the best that we can be, and thank you because that's what you're doing. You're encouraging everyone just to be the best that they can be. And if someone wants to find you, I'll have all of your links in our show notes and definitely check out our book. I'm going to put the link into the Amazon as well. It's such a great book. You'll definitely find nuggets out of it, and we have one minute left on this Zoom. So did you want to end or say anything?
Speaker 2:I hope that the people that read my book become enthused and encouraged to make small changes which can make a big positive difference.
Speaker 1:They really can.
Speaker 2:And as I was taught in Italian piano, a piano si va lontano, little by little, and you go far.
Speaker 1:I love that and I know ciao bella. I love it. Thank you so much for meeting with me again. This has been great. I want to have you back. I want to do meditations, yoga, whatever we can squeeze in into our little world, right, get the word out. So thank you again and definitely be in touch and I'll talk to you soon.
